By KINIBIZ
In the second part of the series, Daim Zainuddin denies any fall-out with former prime minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad in relation to his second exit from the Cabinet in 2001. He also weighs in on the controversial Renong and Malaysia Airlines System (MAS) takeover by the government following the Asian Financial Crisis in the late 1990s.
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Former Finance Minister Daim Zainuddin denied that he had any fallout with former prime minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad when he left the cabinet as finance minister in 2001 in an interview with KiniBiz.
Dr Mahathir Mohamad
Daim Zainuddin resigned again from the Finance Ministry portfolio in 2001 after only three years back in cabinet. Speculation was rife that his exit was due to a fallout with Mahathir with whom he has enjoyed close association for decades.
“That’s a perception,” said Daim when KiniBiz broached the subject, adding that the speculation perhaps rose from the rarity of resignations from high public offices.
Daim also criticised the government’s takeover of groups such as Renong/United Engineers and TRI/Celcom and Malaysia Airlines from Daim proteges such as Halim Saad and Tajudin Ramli.
“I think that was a silly move,” said Daim. “The rest were given time and they all recovered.”
Among others Daim also commented on government involvement in business, the National Economic Policy (NEP) as well as bumiputera rights, advising bumiputeras to get up early and work hard to get on in life.
Here are excerpts of the interview.
The Daim Interview Part 2 – Mahathir and bailouts
You mentioned (in yesterday’s piece) that you write a lot of letters to people. Do you also write to Dr Mahathir these days?
No, I see him. Sometimes when I have no time to see then I write.
Was there really a fallout between the both of you? The press reported widely in late 2000 that there was.
That’s a perception. You see, in this country nobody retires (laughs) and if you retire then it means there must be some kind of fallout. Everybody thinks the job is for life.
But I made it very clear when I came in (it was) just to handle the economy that once it’s back on track, I would leave.
So there was no fallout?
No. As far as I know, there was no fallout (with Mahathir).
What was your opinion about the way the government took over stakes held by people who were considered your proteges in companies then? Was there some other way by which this could have been avoided?
My view is this: the government must not get involved in business in the first place.
The private sector should be the engine of growth, not the government. So when the government took back (the stakes), I thought it was a mistake. (The government) should have allowed another private sector (entity to do so). Or the bank can take over and auction.
But could somebody have taken it over at that point of time?
You never tried, so you’ll never know (chuckles). If you never try, you’ll never know.
Until today I think it’s wrong for the government to nationalise. Get somebody else who can handle (it), doesn’t matter who, because (otherwise) then you go against your policy of privatisation.
What would you say were the lessons of that era? These people were billionaires and suddenly we see them fall.
You must remember that when the crisis came, many did not expect it. We were lucky we were not in places like Thailand or Korea. We were lucky because our foreign borrowings were very low.
But the stock market crashed and the currency devalued (sharply). Under those circumstances, (no matter) how brilliant you are (chuckling) you cannot save your companies if you were borrowing. So the government had to understand this in approaching the issue.
What they needed was time. But the government was impatient because there was pressure from overseas investors, who invested and lost. So they wanted to see blood in the streets (laughs).
Yes, there was that.
I think that was a silly move. The rest were given time and they all recovered. And then of course fellows started writing and said we bailed out Halim (Saad of Renong) and Tajudin (Ramli of TRI, Celcom and Malaysia Airlines).
But these people don’t understand the meaning of bailout.
Bailout means you give them the money and they stay. Yet here they are suing the government now (laughs). They wrote and said, oh Halim was bailed out, Tajudin was bailed out. What nonsense are they talking? Doesn’t make sense at all, but people believe in these things because these reporters write and say they’ve done research about it.
Couldn’t you have gone to Dr M and said, give them more time at that point?
By that time I have left (the cabinet) and went off to Cambridge University. So I didn’t want to get involved. Because (then) people (would) say I interfere in policies.
Even now I don’t get involved, they do what they like. But only thing I do is write (about issues) — I think this is wrong, I don’t think that is the right policy. But up to them (the government).
What about your take on Bumiputera rights etc? A majority of the population probably accepts that Bumiputeras must be helped but a lot of people are not so happy with the way they are helped, especially given the same people are getting helped over and over again.
You see in the end it’s (about) implementation. People object to the implementation.
People want to help the poor, the less fortunate. Nobody objects to it. But it must not be only Malays. The thing is, the majority are Malays. There are also Chinese poor, Indian poor, Iban poor, Kadazan poor, Orang Asli poor — you have to help everybody that is poor.
But you don’t make it sound as if you’re only helping the Malays. The truth is majority (of those needing help) are Malays.
Everybody needs help. The poor needs help. So your policy must be to help everybody which the government has been doing, except it doesn’t know how to communicate this.
You said you wanted to go into business to prove that Malays can succeed in business. If, say, a business entrepreneur comes up to you and asks how to be successful, what would you say to that person?
Get up early (laughing).
And sleep late?
Get up early and work hard.
That means bangun Subuh (for prayers) lah?
Bangun Subuh, yes. Bangun Subuh, work hard.
It’s 2014 now. Since the New Economic Policy (NEP) and the years since, do we have enough successful Malay businessmen now compared to then?
There are many who are not in the limelight, but are making money quietly. Especially in oil and gas, I think, there are so many of them. They’re doing well but people don’t know about them. And of course (there are also those) in property and other businesses.
You’ll be surprised at the numbers.
I suppose that if the government has time can call them up… you see there are so many agencies trying to help Bumiputeras but I think the government should bring in those who are really in business to speak to the bumiputeras, because you need (the track record).
The Malaccan empire was thriving and they were all Malays. On this side and the other side were Kedah and Kelantan. So to say that Malays cannot do business, it’s really not about culture. (It’s just that) the experience (in business) was not there for a long time. They were farmers, fisherman…school was only up to standard four. (With today’s access to education) everyone can succeed, provided as I said bangun pagi lah (laughs).
What’s your take on Syed Mokhtar?
I won’t comment on others. I used to know his father-in-law, Syed Kechik (Syed Kechik Syed Mohamed Al-Bukhary), well. You should do a study on Syed Kechik. I used to know Syed Kechik very well. He was at that time was very successful. It’s worth looking at Syed Kechik, it’s worth writing on Syed Kechik.
Yesterday: Daim: Najib is too soft
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